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Episode 66: Diet and Executive Functions

Below you can view or listen to Episode 66 of The Personal Brain Trainer Podcast.  

Diet and Executive Functions 

In this episode of the Personal Brain Trainer Podcast, Dr. Erica Warren and Darius Namdaran explore the impact of diet on executive functioning. Erica shares her personal journey with diet changes that helped her overcome colitis and cancer. They discuss essential nutrients like omega-3 fatty acids and antioxidants, with supportive research on their cognitive benefits. Various diets, including the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, Mediterranean Diet, and Ketogenic Diet, are investigated for their potential to enhance cognitive function. The hosts also emphasize the importance of avoiding processed foods and sugars to maintain optimal brain health. Tune in to learn practical tips for improving your diet and cognitive performance.

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      Erica: Welcome to the Personal Brain Trainer podcast. I'm Dr Erica Warren.

      Darius: And I'm Darius Namdaran. And we're your hosts. Join us on an adventure to translate scientific jargon and brain research into simple metaphors and explanations for everyday life. We explore executive function and learning strategies that help turbocharge the mind.

      Erica: Come learn to steer around the invisible barriers so that you can achieve your goals. This podcast is ideal for parents, educators, and learners of all ages.

      Darius: This podcast is sponsored by dyslexiaproductivitycoaching.com. we give you a simple productivity system for your Apple devices that harnesses the creativity that comes with your dyslexia.

      Erica: This podcast is brought to you by goodsensorylearning.com, where you can find educational and occupational therapy lessons and remedial materials that bring delight to learning. Finally, you can find Dr Warren's many courses at, learningspecialistcourses.com. come check out our newest course on developing executive functions and study strategies. Hey, Darius. Nice to see you today. I'm excited because we're going to be talking about diet and executive functioning.

      Darius: Yeah, I know this is a big thing for you. You've lived with diet and the effects of diet for many years. So tell us a little bit more. Let's get this conversation kicked off.

      Erica: I'll just give you a brief summary of why it's so important to me. Because I've struggled with both colitis and cancer in my life, and by changing my diet profoundly, I cured personally, myself of both of those conditions. I have to stay rigorously on this diet, and then I'm absolutely fine. And it's been a real-life changer for me. But it's interesting cause even as a little kid, I had a lot of executive functioning issues, and I initially got off of, processed foods because it turned out that I was allergic to preservatives. And that changed everything. But when I went on this super clean diet of no sugar, no processed foods, no preservatives, all organic, it really took my executive functioning skills to a whole new level, and just my cognition improved. So many things improved. So, yeah, I thought it'd be really interesting to go, a little bit of a deep dive into this. The first thing I wanted to talk to you about were, are two kind of key nutrients that are really, really important when it comes to executive functioning, and also just cognition and learning and memory and all of that. And two key nutrients are omega three fatty acids and antioxidants. But let's look at omega three fatty acids. And also, for the sake of the podcast, I did a little bit of research, and I looked, at a study. It was called the effects of omega three polyunsaturated fat acids on brain functions. And this was a review of the research. And what it found was that by ingesting omega three fatty acids increases learning, memory, cognitive well-being, and blood flow to the brain. And the nice thing about omega three, treatments is they're very advantageous, well tolerated, and risk free, unlike so many medications that are out there. So, you know, the bottom line is, I think that there are foods that we can eat that really strengthen our executive functions, our brain, our bodies. And in contrast, there are those things that we can take that can really diminish those things. But let's, we're going to initially talk about the benefits, so, of, omega three fatty acids, and now antioxidants like vitamin C, vitamin E, flavonoids, b twelve, etcetera. So, one study that I found was called improvement of executive function after short term administration of antioxidant mix containing the bacopa, lycopene, astaxanthin, and vitamin b twelve. And what they found is that they found significant improvements in cognitive functions and compared, to a placebo, and it improved processing speed. Isn't that interesting? Executive functions and working memory. So I think those are two core areas. Even if you want to take supplements, like some people take fish oils, if you want to try to improve your executive function and cognitive functioning. And I know a lot of people that work with children, they will give supplements in those arenas to the kids that have conditions like ADHD or executive functioning issues, and many of them do see improvements. Unfortunately, it's really hard to work with a child's diet.

      Erica: So many food manufacturers really target children with unhealthy foods, and so many unhealthy foods, like candy, ice cream, all of these things are used as rewards with children, birthday parties, all of that. So taking that away feels like an extreme punishment to many children. And it's really unfortunate, because there are so many healthy, delicious things for kids to have, like fruit. And it's funny because candy is made in fruit flavors, when in fact, if they just had the fruit itself, it would be healthy. But you, know, the candies are so packed with chemicals and sugar and all these things that aren't healthy. But beyond that, we will go a little bit into the unhealthy realm, but not quite yet. I wanted to talk about some beneficial diets, so I'm just going to talk about just a couple of them. There's the one that I went on, which is called the specific carbohydrate diet. It was a book written by Elaine Gottschall. It's specifically for people with ulcerative colitis, diverticulitis, all of those types of intestinal based ailments, and even autism. And it's basically, it's taking out practically all carbohydrates, or the heavy carbohydrates, sugar and processed food. It doesn't go organic. That's something I chose to do, although I think in this culture and in this world, she probably would have suggested going organic. She died a number of years ago. But the large number of pesticides that we're using these days is definitely not great for the brain. But that's a really wonderful diet. And I know a lot of people have had enormous success on it. The thing is, is that with many of these diets, you have to go in all the way. You can't cheat every now and then. I guess you can. I guess it depends on what your, I know I can't because if I cheat, I get sick again. But for many people, I suppose they could do that diet in a more moderate manner. Another diet that's very popular is the mediterranean diet. I'm sure you've heard about that one. And that's where we're looking at a lot of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, olive oil, lean protein. And they've discovered that offers a lower risk of cognitive decline in dementia. It can be a little bit difficult to adopt, but not nearly as hard as a specific carbohydrate diet, because it does allow some healthy grains. And I did find a study on the impact of the mediterranean diet on cognitive functioning, and this was on older adults. And the findings found that it did have significant positive effects on the delayed recall and working memory. So it also helps had mixed results in the areas of memory, reasoning, and processing speed. And then the final diet I wanted to talk about was a ketogenic diet, which a lot of people find is very popular. This is actually very different because it's very high fat, but low carbohydrate diet.

      Darius: I'm on, that at the moment.

      Erica: Do you like it?

      Darius: Yeah.

      Erica: So it is restrictive. It can be a little difficult to maintain long term. It can be a little bit nutrient deficient and can increase heart disease. But overall, the studies suggest that it does have promising effects on cognitive functioning, such as memory, reference, memory, and attention. And in animal studies, they saw a decline in age related cognitive problems. And in human studies, they found positive effects on cognitive functioning. So, yeah, that's a really great option. And then the last one that I wanted to talk about is, I am a fan of William Lee. He did a TED talk. It was called can we eat to starve cancer. And it was very, very popular. I mean, I don't know how many millions of views it has had now, but it's a wonderful one. And he really teaches you how to eat to starve cancer. And there are just certain foods that basically what they do is they stop the blood flow to the cancer and they're all really healthy foods, like blueberries and nuts. And interestingly enough, it's almost my exact diet. So it's kind of funny, because when I went on this diet back in my thirties, all sorts of other symptoms just disappeared. So it's a, very, very clean. And of course I took it up a notch by going all organic as well. It's just amazing. I mean, I don't take aspirin, I don't

      Erica: do anything because I don't really need to. So it's pretty cool. Anyway, so that's a little bit about diet and some of the different diets that you can consider looking at if you want to take your cognitive functioning, particularly executive functioning, up a notch. What are your thoughts now? You said that you've been using the ketogenic diet. Have you noticed any cognitive changes?

      Darius: Yeah. So I did an extreme version of the ketogenic diet, which is the carnivore diet. So ketogenic diet basically is very like your diet, except there's no nuts. You know, your diet includes nuts, doesn't it?

      Erica: It does, yeah. Nuts are incredibly important because I don't have any starch or grains. What I do is I can make bread and cookies, for example, out of ground.

      Darius: Yeah.

      Erica: And I eat meat.

      Darius: You eat meat?

      Erica: I do eat meat, but I don't eat a lot of meat.

      Darius: You're very veggie, aren't you?

      Erica: Yeah, I used to. Last night I had a New York strip steak, organic, but I don't do it that often. Maybe a couple times a month. And I'll get organic ground beef, grass fed ground beef, and make meatballs or something like that. But I'll just have two or three on a salad or something of that sort. But I'm not very, I don't really eat chicken much anymore. I mean, every now and then, but everything's got to be organic, but. Wow, you went full meat.

      Darius: Yeah, I did it for my health. You know, my weight was. Well, I was 200 pounds, and I needed to lose weight. That wasn't the primary reason I did it. My blood pressure was up at 160 over 110, and so it was getting up at the hypertension levels and not so great. And my choices were to lose weight or to exercise. I still plan to exercise, but I was having a lot of inflammation issues all around my body, you know, face getting inflamed. Weirdly, every two or three months, I've got celiac disease, and cutting out the wheat didn't solve at all. My issues did help a lot. I've cut out dairy already, loads of different little niggly things, like a persistent cough for five years after I'd had, what, whooping cough, like a phlegmy kind of cough, dry eye, and all sorts of tiny little weird things that are like, gosh, this is just annoying. And I did this, started this diet three months ago. My blood pressure is now down to 125 over 80 in a normal range. I haven't even done any real exercise during that period. You know, walking, but not proper cardio. I should be doing some strength exercises, and I plan to do that. But I had a neck impingement, shoulder impingement in my neck, and that was due to inflammation. And fortunately, that took about two months to deal with, but that needed the inflammation source sorted. But during all of that, the added benefit is I think my cognitive function is much more stable, and I think I just have more stability in the day. I don't have that sort of slump in the middle of the day. My energy levels are more stable. And the other thing is, I'm not hungry all the time. Like, I eat as much food as I like. I can eat two steaks a day with four eggs and bacon and, avocados and all sorts of. And I eat until I'm fully that. I don't ever go hungry.

      Erica: Are you eating veggies?

      Darius: No, not yet. So at the moment, it's a full exclusion diet where I'm excluding everything.

      Erica: And then you've got avocado.

      Darius: I've included avocado. So I've done the meat exclude. I've done it just all meat. And then I've included the avocado. The next thing I want to include is onions. And then I want to introduce sauerkraut. And then I want to introduce cheese, because I believe I actually could tolerate cheese, can manage some goats cheese, but because my whole system was so sensitized to everything, I'm going to try goats’ cheese and see how goats cheese goes.

      Erica: What about garlic? Garlic has so many great benefits. If you're going to do onions, do onions and garlic together?

      Darius: Oh, yes. And I'm going through the fodmap kind of. Have you heard of FODMAP?

      Erica: A little bit.

      Darius: So FODMAP are a, ah, strange group of foods that can unexpectedly affect people's systems. And FODMAP is an acronym. And one of them, the, ah, is onions and garlic

      Darius: and things like that. For some people, that can trigger, a response in their immune system and so on. And so I've cut that out and I'm going to reintroduce them one at a time and see how it affects my system. I'm happy to spend, like, a week on each and just gradually introduce different food groups. And I'm really enjoying just the stability it's giving to my day. No more hunger. It's a bit boring, and I am missing Parsley, and I am missing onions, and I am missing, you know, some tasty food. But I do like a steak. And so, yes, it is. So, basically, going back to all these diets, they have a common theme, and that is, it seems like carbs and sugar are not good for your cognitive function.

      Erica: Right. And one thought for you too is if you're going to integrate cheese, if you can find raw, organic cheese that's aged, then it will not have the milk sugars in it, because just from what you were describing with that kind of fluffy feel that that's often caused by the milk sugars, like lactose.

      Darius: And it went, I hadn't had any milk sugars for three years.

      Erica: Oh, interesting.

      Darius: I have not eaten dairy for three years at all.

      Erica: But you don't now, I can't tolerate lactose. I cannot have milk sugars, but I have raw, organic hard cheeses that are aged. All the beneficial bacteria are still alive because it was never heated, and it digests the milk sugars for you. So they are lactose free and they're the easiest to tolerate. So whether it's organic or not, I find that the organic I tolerate much better. I have no problems with when it's not organic. I have a few problems, but a lot of the goat cheeses are not aged, and that's. So they are going to have, they're going to be higher in lactose. It's just, the thought, yeah, if you want to integrate cheese, I will integrate the hard aged cheeses first. Oh, first, yeah. It would be a shame because with the soft cheeses, they have lactose in them, and I would be sad for you to, to knock them out again. They're going to be easier to tolerate. Much easier to tolerate.

      Darius: I just bought some hard goats’ cheese today for part of the experiment. So I'll start with that.

      Erica: yeah, yeah. And see if it's been aged. If it's been aged, you're probably going to be okay. So I can actually have yogurt. What I do is I get organic milk and then I make my own yogurt. Now, most store-bought yogurt is made over a four-hour period, but if you make it over a 24-hour period where I actually, I heat up the milk, cool it down, I put in the yogurt starter, which is just probiotics, and I get a special one. And so I put in the probiotics and then I put it in a yogurt maker, which is at about 105 degrees, I would imagine, somewhere around there. And then I leave it for 24 hours. And that's long enough for the beneficial bacteria to digest all the milk sugars, so it's lactose free. So I can have yogurt? And you could too, if you make it yourself, because then you just prepare it over a longer period of time so that the beneficial bacteria have an opportunity to digest the milk sugars for you. It's interesting stuff, isn't it?

      Darius: Yeah. So for listeners who are thinking with an executive function hat on.

      Darius: Why are we bringing all of this up? I think the reason we're bringing all of this up is that diet really does affect things that are close to.

      Erica: Our heart, and our mind and our body and our gut. It really affects all of us. With that said, should we talk about just take it down a notch and make it a little bit lighter and talk about some beneficial foods?

      Darius: Yeah, do that.

      Erica: Welcome to the Personal Brain Trainer podcast. I'm Dr Erica Warren.
      Darius: And I'm Darius Namdaran. And we're your hosts. Join us on an adventure to translate scientific jargon and brain research into simple metaphors and explanations for everyday life. We explore executive function and learning strategies that help turbocharge the mind.

      Erica: Come learn to steer around the invisible barriers so that you can achieve your goals. This podcast is ideal for parents, educators, and learners of all ages.

      Darius: This podcast is sponsored by dyslexiaproductivitycoaching.com. we give you a simple productivity system for your Apple devices that harnesses the creativity that comes with your dyslexia.

      Erica: This podcast is brought to you by goodsensorylearning.com, where you can find educational and occupational therapy lessons and remedial materials that bring delight to learning. Finally, you can find Dr Warren's many courses at, learningspecialistcourses.com. come check out our newest course on developing executive functions and study strategies. Hey, Darius. Nice to see you today. I'm excited because we're going to be talking about diet and executive functioning.

      Darius: Yeah, I know this is a big thing for you. You've lived with diet and the effects of diet for many years. So tell us a little bit more. Let's get this conversation kicked off.

      Erica: I'll just give you a brief summary of why it's so important to me. Because I've struggled with both colitis and cancer in my life, and by changing my diet profoundly, I cured personally, myself of both of those conditions. I have to stay rigorously on this diet, and then I'm absolutely fine. And it's been a real-life changer for me. But it's interesting cause even as a little kid, I had a lot of executive functioning issues, and I initially got off of, processed foods because it turned out that I was allergic to preservatives. And that changed everything. But when I went on this super clean diet of no sugar, no processed foods, no preservatives, all organic, it really took my executive functioning skills to a whole new level, and just my cognition improved. So many things improved. So, yeah, I thought it'd be really interesting to go, a little bit of a deep dive into this. The first thing I wanted to talk to you about were, are two kind of key nutrients that are really, really important when it comes to executive functioning, and also just cognition and learning and memory and all of that. And two key nutrients are omega three fatty acids and antioxidants. But let's look at omega three fatty acids. And also, for the sake of the podcast, I did a little bit of research, and I looked, at a study. It was called the effects of omega three polyunsaturated fat acids on brain functions. And this was a review of the research. And what it found was that by ingesting omega three fatty acids increases learning, memory, cognitive well-being, and blood flow to the brain. And the nice thing about omega three, treatments is they're very advantageous, well tolerated, and risk free, unlike so many medications that are out there. So, you know, the bottom line is, I think that there are foods that we can eat that really strengthen our executive functions, our brain, our bodies. And in contrast, there are those things that we can take that can really diminish those things. But let's, we're going to initially talk about the benefits, so, of, omega three fatty acids, and now antioxidants like vitamin C, vitamin E, flavonoids, b twelve, etcetera. So, one study that I found was called improvement of executive function after short term administration of antioxidant mix containing the bacopa, lycopene, astaxanthin, and vitamin b twelve. And what they found is that they found significant improvements in cognitive functions and compared, to a placebo, and it improved processing speed. Isn't that interesting? Executive functions and working memory. So I think those are two core areas. Even if you want to take supplements, like some people take fish oils, if you want to try to improve your executive function and cognitive functioning. And I know a lot of people that work with children, they will give supplements in those arenas to the kids that have conditions like ADHD or executive functioning issues, and many of them do see improvements. Unfortunately, it's really hard to work with a child's diet.

      Erica: So many food manufacturers really target children with unhealthy foods, and so many unhealthy foods, like candy, ice cream, all of these things are used as rewards with children, birthday parties, all of that. So taking that away feels like an extreme punishment to many children. And it's really unfortunate, because there are so many healthy, delicious things for kids to have, like fruit. And it's funny because candy is made in fruit flavors, when in fact, if they just had the fruit itself, it would be healthy. But you, know, the candies are so packed with chemicals and sugar and all these things that aren't healthy. But beyond that, we will go a little bit into the unhealthy realm, but not quite yet. I wanted to talk about some beneficial diets, so I'm just going to talk about just a couple of them. There's the one that I went on, which is called the specific carbohydrate diet. It was a book written by Elaine Gottschall. It's specifically for people with ulcerative colitis, diverticulitis, all of those types of intestinal based ailments, and even autism. And it's basically, it's taking out practically all carbohydrates, or the heavy carbohydrates, sugar and processed food. It doesn't go organic. That's something I chose to do, although I think in this culture and in this world, she probably would have suggested going organic. She died a number of years ago. But the large number of pesticides that we're using these days is definitely not great for the brain. But that's a really wonderful diet. And I know a lot of people have had enormous success on it. The thing is, is that with many of these diets, you have to go in all the way. You can't cheat every now and then. I guess you can. I guess it depends on what your, I know I can't because if I cheat, I get sick again. But for many people, I suppose they could do that diet in a more moderate manner. Another diet that's very popular is the mediterranean diet. I'm sure you've heard about that one. And that's where we're looking at a lot of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, olive oil, lean protein. And they've discovered that offers a lower risk of cognitive decline in dementia. It can be a little bit difficult to adopt, but not nearly as hard as a specific carbohydrate diet, because it does allow some healthy grains. And I did find a study on the impact of the mediterranean diet on cognitive functioning, and this was on older adults. And the findings found that it did have significant positive effects on the delayed recall and working memory. So it also helps had mixed results in the areas of memory, reasoning, and processing speed. And then the final diet I wanted to talk about was a ketogenic diet, which a lot of people find is very popular. This is actually very different because it's very high fat, but low carbohydrate diet.

      Darius: I'm on, that at the moment.

      Erica: Do you like it?

      Darius: Yeah.

      Erica: So it is restrictive. It can be a little difficult to maintain long term. It can be a little bit nutrient deficient and can increase heart disease. But overall, the studies suggest that it does have promising effects on cognitive functioning, such as memory, reference, memory, and attention. And in animal studies, they saw a decline in age related cognitive problems. And in human studies, they found positive effects on cognitive functioning. So, yeah, that's a really great option. And then the last one that I wanted to talk about is, I am a fan of William Lee. He did a TED talk. It was called can we eat to starve cancer. And it was very, very popular. I mean, I don't know how many millions of views it has had now, but it's a wonderful one. And he really teaches you how to eat to starve cancer. And there are just certain foods that basically what they do is they stop the blood flow to the cancer and they're all really healthy foods, like blueberries and nuts. And interestingly enough, it's almost my exact diet. So it's kind of funny, because when I went on this diet back in my thirties, all sorts of other symptoms just disappeared. So it's a, very, very clean. And of course I took it up a notch by going all organic as well. It's just amazing. I mean, I don't take aspirin, I don't

      Erica: do anything because I don't really need to. So it's pretty cool. Anyway, so that's a little bit about diet and some of the different diets that you can consider looking at if you want to take your cognitive functioning, particularly executive functioning, up a notch. What are your thoughts now? You said that you've been using the ketogenic diet. Have you noticed any cognitive changes?
      Darius: Yeah. So I did an extreme version of the ketogenic diet, which is the carnivore diet. So ketogenic diet basically is very like your diet, except there's no nuts. You know, your diet includes nuts, doesn't it?

      Erica: It does, yeah. Nuts are incredibly important because I don't have any starch or grains. What I do is I can make bread and cookies, for example, out of ground.

      Darius: Yeah.

      Erica: And I eat meat.

      Darius: You eat meat?

      Erica: I do eat meat, but I don't eat a lot of meat.

      Darius: You're very veggie, aren't you?

      Erica: Yeah, I used to. Last night I had a New York strip steak, organic, but I don't do it that often. Maybe a couple times a month. And I'll get organic ground beef, grass fed ground beef, and make meatballs or something like that. But I'll just have two or three on a salad or something of that sort. But I'm not very, I don't really eat chicken much anymore. I mean, every now and then, but everything's got to be organic, but. Wow, you went full meat.

      Darius: Yeah, I did it for my health. You know, my weight was. Well, I was 200 pounds, and I needed to lose weight. That wasn't the primary reason I did it. My blood pressure was up at 160 over 110, and so it was getting up at the hypertension levels and not so great. And my choices were to lose weight or to exercise. I still plan to exercise, but I was having a lot of inflammation issues all around my body, you know, face getting inflamed. Weirdly, every two or three months, I've got celiac disease, and cutting out the wheat didn't solve at all. My issues did help a lot. I've cut out dairy already, loads of different little niggly things, like a persistent cough for five years after I'd had, what, whooping cough, like a phlegmy kind of cough, dry eye, and all sorts of tiny little weird things that are like, gosh, this is just annoying. And I did this, started this diet three months ago. My blood pressure is now down to 125 over 80 in a normal range. I haven't even done any real exercise during that period. You know, walking, but not proper cardio. I should be doing some strength exercises, and I plan to do that. But I had a neck impingement, shoulder impingement in my neck, and that was due to inflammation. And fortunately, that took about two months to deal with, but that needed the inflammation source sorted. But during all of that, the added benefit is I think my cognitive function is much more stable, and I think I just have more stability in the day. I don't have that sort of slump in the middle of the day. My energy levels are more stable. And the other thing is, I'm not hungry all the time. Like, I eat as much food as I like. I can eat two steaks a day with four eggs and bacon and, avocados and all sorts of. And I eat until I'm fully that. I don't ever go hungry.

      Erica: Are you eating veggies?

      Darius: No, not yet. So at the moment, it's a full exclusion diet where I'm excluding everything.

      Erica: And then you've got avocado.

      Darius: I've included avocado. So I've done the meat exclude. I've done it just all meat. And then I've included the avocado. The next thing I want to include is onions. And then I want to introduce sauerkraut. And then I want to introduce cheese, because I believe I actually could tolerate cheese, can manage some goats cheese, but because my whole system was so sensitized to everything, I'm going to try goats’ cheese and see how goats cheese goes.

      Erica: What about garlic? Garlic has so many great benefits. If you're going to do onions, do onions and garlic together?
      Darius: Oh, yes. And I'm going through the fodmap kind of. Have you heard of FODMAP?

      Erica: A little bit.

      Darius: So FODMAP are a, ah, strange group of foods that can unexpectedly affect people's systems. And FODMAP is an acronym. And one of them, the, ah, is onions and garlic

      Darius: and things like that. For some people, that can trigger, a response in their immune system and so on. And so I've cut that out and I'm going to reintroduce them one at a time and see how it affects my system. I'm happy to spend, like, a week on each and just gradually introduce different food groups. And I'm really enjoying just the stability it's giving to my day. No more hunger. It's a bit boring, and I am missing Parsley, and I am missing onions, and I am missing, you know, some tasty food. But I do like a steak. And so, yes, it is. So, basically, going back to all these diets, they have a common theme, and that is, it seems like carbs and sugar are not good for your cognitive function.

      Erica: Right. And one thought for you too is if you're going to integrate cheese, if you can find raw, organic cheese that's aged, then it will not have the milk sugars in it, because just from what you were describing with that kind of fluffy feel that that's often caused by the milk sugars, like lactose.

      Darius: And it went, I hadn't had any milk sugars for three years.

      Erica: Oh, interesting.

      Darius: I have not eaten dairy for three years at all.

      Erica: But you don't now, I can't tolerate lactose. I cannot have milk sugars, but I have raw, organic hard cheeses that are aged. All the beneficial bacteria are still alive because it was never heated, and it digests the milk sugars for you. So they are lactose free and they're the easiest to tolerate. So whether it's organic or not, I find that the organic I tolerate much better. I have no problems with when it's not organic. I have a few problems, but a lot of the goat cheeses are not aged, and that's. So they are going to have, they're going to be higher in lactose. It's just, the thought, yeah, if you want to integrate cheese, I will integrate the hard aged cheeses first. Oh, first, yeah. It would be a shame because with the soft cheeses, they have lactose in them, and I would be sad for you to, to knock them out again. They're going to be easier to tolerate. Much easier to tolerate.

      Darius: I just bought some hard goats’ cheese today for part of the experiment. So I'll start with that.

      Erica: yeah, yeah. And see if it's been aged. If it's been aged, you're probably going to be okay. So I can actually have yogurt. What I do is I get organic milk and then I make my own yogurt. Now, most store-bought yogurt is made over a four-hour period, but if you make it over a 24-hour period where I actually, I heat up the milk, cool it down, I put in the yogurt starter, which is just probiotics, and I get a special one. And so I put in the probiotics and then I put it in a yogurt maker, which is at about 105 degrees, I would imagine, somewhere around there. And then I leave it for 24 hours. And that's long enough for the beneficial bacteria to digest all the milk sugars, so it's lactose free. So I can have yogurt? And you could too, if you make it yourself, because then you just prepare it over a longer period of time so that the beneficial bacteria have an opportunity to digest the milk sugars for you. It's interesting stuff, isn't it?

      Darius: Yeah. So for listeners who are thinking with an executive function hat on.

      Darius: Why are we bringing all of this up? I think the reason we're bringing all of this up is that diet really does affect things that are close to.

      Erica: Our heart, and our mind and our body and our gut. It really affects all of us. With that said, should we talk about just take it down a notch and make it a little bit lighter and talk about some beneficial foods?

      Darius: Yeah, do that.